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[Nanda:] There are in the world sages, they say — in what way? Do they call one a sage for possessing knowledge or possessing a way of life? [The Buddha:] Not on account of his views, learning, or knowledge do the skilled here, Nanda, call one a sage. Those who live disarmed, undesiring, untroubled: those, I say, are called sages. [Nanda:] Whatever brahmans & contemplatives describe purity in terms of views & learning, describe purity in terms of precepts & practices, describe purity in terms of manifold ways: have they, dear sir, living there in that way, crossed over birth & aging? I ask you, O Blessed One. Please tell me. [The Buddha:] Whatever brahmans & contemplatives describe purity in terms of views & learning, describe purity in terms of precepts & practices, describe purity in terms of manifold ways: none of them, living there in that way, I tell you, have crossed over birth & aging. [Nanda:] Whatever brahmans & contemplatives describe purity in terms of views & learning, describe purity in terms of precepts & practices, describe purity in terms of manifold ways: if, sage, as you say, they've not crossed over the flood, then who in the world of beings divine & human has crossed over birth & aging? I ask you, O Blessed One. Please tell me. [The Buddha:] I don't say that all brahmans & contemplatives are shrouded in birth & aging. Those here who've abandoned what's seen, heard, & sensed, precepts & practices [1] — all — who've abandoned their manifold ways — again, all — who, comprehending craving, are effluent-free: they are the ones, I tell you, who've crossed over the flood. [Nanda:] I relish, Gotama, the Great Seer's words well-expounded, without acquisition. Those here who've abandoned what's seen, heard, & sensed, precepts & practices — all — who've abandoned their manifold ways — again, all — who, comprehending craving, are effluent-free: I, too, say they've crossed over the flood. Note 1. For a discussion of the abandoning of precepts and practices, see The Mind Like Fire Unbound, Chapters 3 and 4.